译者访谈系列:中国的城乡教育差距(五)

核心提示:“译者访谈”是我们推出的系列音频采访。所有音频可以通过wuala上的链接免费下载(陆续更新中),有苹果设备的可以先连接VPN,然后在iTunes上用“译者”搜索即可订阅下载。


【“译者访谈”系列节目的片花和节选就是“中国声音”集锦】

本次访谈的音频可以在这里下载收听(下)

本期嘉宾:中国知名的人权律师许志永博士和“中国见红”的博主Tom,访谈以中英双语进行,因此参与的译者成员除了主持小米之外,还有志愿口译者王伟。以下是中英双语的文字版。

YZ:Tom, you said you have a question. Go ahead and ask it.
YZ:Tom,你先来问一下你一直想问的一个问题。

Tom:Yeah, I am just wondering if Dr.Xu believed that this would be an effective method that the government is using to close down these schools, and result in the migrant workers and their children returning to the country side; or just result in the children are sent home and the family being split up.

WW:Tom的问题是你觉得这种行为真的有效吗?把打工子弟学校关闭真的能够把农民工和他们的孩子都赶回到农村去,还是说最后的结果是孩子没办法送回农村去了,但父母还留在城里,变成骨肉分离、家庭拆散的状态?

XZY:其实这肯定是不可能的,因为城市化是中国的必然趋势,越来越多的人会到城市里的生活,这么做其实只是会给这些家长们,新移民们制造一些家庭分离的痛苦,制造一些生活上的困难。

YZ:也就是说关闭学校其实也并不是一个有效的手段,对吧?

XZY:对,它只是制造一些困难、制造一些痛苦罢了。

XZY:我还想补充一下,刚才有问道是不是北京市民也赞同这种做法,其实不是的,从具体的居住区来说,北京市民,也就是原住民和的新移民之间是互利的关系,北京市民可以租房子给他们,总之他们之间不会有敌意的,不会互相排斥。

YZ:你没有看到这种情况是吗?这种敌意?

XZY:对。

WW:The answer to Tom’s question from Dr. Xu is that No, he doesn’t think that the government’s actions are going to push the parents and the kids back to villages, most likely the result will be the kids will go back to the villages, and the parents will stay in the cities. And the family will be split.

WW:On the question that Xiaomi asked earlier, are there any local Beijing dwellers supporting government actions in this regard, the answer again is No. From what Dr. Xu is seeing, the urban people and the migrants, they are benefiting from each other because the migrants provide the cheap labor and the urban people who have properties, for example, to rent them to the migrants. So they benefit in that way. And other the other hand ,the education system doesn’t interact that much.

YZ:Since Tom has a tight schedule, my last question for you is that what do you think of the Hukou system? I know it has been talked about for decades and everybody is saying that needs to be changed. But till now it hasn’t been changed. What do you think are the difficulties to change Hukou system?

Tom:Well, it seems like there is always a lot of talk from the government about the benefits and stability that the Hukou system provides. When I talked to a sociologist from Beijing, they often pointed out that China doesn’t really have slums, which is part of why it’s difficult to convince the government for major revisions. They see this as a way of providing greater stability and we always know that stability is the government’s one of the top priorities.

Tom:But at the same time, the hukou system is a huge inequality. It’s sth. that needs to be addressed, but I think that’s a question left for the Chinese people as to how that can be changed, they don’t want to be offered too many suggestions. I just want to advocate on behalf of my students, for their sake, it seems like something needs to be done.

WW:Tom 刚才回答的问题是关于户口,他认为中国的户口制度是极大的不平等。政府总是说户口制度的好处,而且经常提到的是对社会稳定带来的好处。当他在与一些社会学者们讨论的时候,那些社会学者们提到中国没有贫民窟,这说明了户口制度的好处之一,对政府来说“维稳”是首要大事,从他的角度来说,户口制度的最大问题在于它的不平等。对于城市和农村人口之间造成的巨大的差距,他并不认为他想为中国的改造户口制度提供太多建议,但是他要为他的学生,他的学生大多数都是农村的孩子,他为他们要呼吁改变户口制度的不平等。

YZ:Tom, thank you very much for your time. I think you have to go back for work.
YZ:Tom, 谢谢你的时间。你是不是要回去工作了?

Tom:Yeah, but thank you very much for this opportunity and thank you, Dr. Xu, for all of your incredible working for advocating these migrant workers rights. It’s something that’s incredibly valuable to the people I have worked with. Hopefully it will be making a clear difference soon.

YZ:Thank you Tom too, for whatever you have done for China.

WW:Thanks, Tom, for your writing

[Tom 下线。注:因为访谈开始的时间比预定的时间晚了一些,而Tom不得不按照之前的结束时间下线。但是我们的中文访谈仍在继续。]

(TBC)

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