译者访谈系列:中国的城乡教育差距(四)

核心提示:“译者访谈”是我们推出的系列音频采访。所有音频可以通过wuala上的链接免费下载(陆续更新中),有苹果设备的可以先连接VPN,然后在iTunes上用“译者”搜索即可订阅下载。


【“译者访谈”系列节目的片花和节选就是“中国声音”集锦】

本次访谈的音频可以在这里下载收听(下)

本期嘉宾:中国知名的人权律师许志永博士和“中国见红”的博主Tom,访谈以中英双语进行,因此参与的译者成员除了主持小米之外,还有志愿口译者王伟。以下是中英双语的文字版。

YZ:Tom, you have been to Guangxi and Nanjing. While Guangxi is much poorer than Nanjing, so you have seen both, the rural and the urban education systems. Do you think there’s any reason behind the worries of the local government for those unregistered Migrant Workers Children Schools? The existence of this kind of schools, does it cause any problem, like safety problem, or whatever other problems?

YZ:Tom,你在广西和南京,也就是农村和城市里的学校都有经历,你是否赞同您刚才说的观点,如果不关闭这些“不正规”的打工子弟学校的话,可能会被当地的政府带来一些麻烦,比如说学校内可能出现安全问题。你同意吗?

Tom:I think there are good reasons to be concerned about the saftey issues. There have been several attacks in the Migrant Workers Schools by uncertified teachers or security guards. I know recently in Shanghai, there is a case of sexual abuse. Earlier last year in Nanjing, there is a teacher who burned seven kinder garden student with a hot iron. So there are safety concerns. But I think the larger part is they don’t want to have to see those migrant workers, and their schools, which make this divide between the urban and rural very visible to the urban population. Now where work, they are mostly urban citizens, the attitude towards migrant workers seems to be they want to benefit from the cheap labour, strive the local GDP, but they don’t want to have to share these benefits with the migrant workers. And they don’t want to have to see them in the city, they want the city to be clean and modern, even when it’s not really the case.

WW:确实学校中也有一些事件发生,所以官方的这些忧虑也不是完全没有道理的。一件是在幼儿园中老师用熨斗烫伤了七个孩子;另一起是在上海的学校中出现了性侵案,这两件都是恶性事件。当局把为农民工的子弟的提供教育当成是一个问题来对待,而不是想办法为他们提供这些设施和教育手段。因为这些农民工,这些子弟学校让城乡的差别分体现得很明显。城里的人希望能从农民工那里得到廉价的劳动力、拉动经济增长、从中获利,又不愿意接纳他们成为城里人,不愿让他们呆在城里,城里人希望看到的城市是光鲜漂亮的,不愿的为让城市制造光鲜漂亮的人提供基本的福利。

YZ:志永,针对这一次打工子弟学校被拆迁的动作,你的想法,因为我们没有一线接触到本地的人,那么你接触的时候有没有看到当地,有北京户口的人觉得这个行动是符合他们的利益。

YZ:My next question is for Zhiyong, because he’s been on the front line of the demolition of the Migrant Workers Children Schools. My question is have you seen any Beijing citizen who has the Beijing Hukou actually on the same line as the government, they want to see these schools demolished as well, or is it just a purely government action?

XZY:这当然是一个政府的行为。实际上是政府中某些保守势力,某些计划经济思维的人、也不愿意承担任何社会责任的人作出了这样的行为。我在这里要补充一点,刚才我说有两股势力促成了这次打工子弟学校的拆迁,一种是国有的意识形态,一些保守势力总想减少北京的人口,他们希望计划北京的人口,这个是其中的一个动力;具体的教育部门他们怕承担责任,[断线]

WW:It’s mainly a government action, it’s government’s responsibility, especially many conservatives in the government, they want to reduce the populations in the city of Beijing, and they want to be able to plan the demography of the city, just like the previous times, economy is totally controlled centrally.

XZY:我刚才讲的主要的意思是这很显然这是政府的行为。我刚才想作一点补充,其实不是说校舍都不安全,是因为政府不愿意承担责任,不想去比如说定期检查呀、师资问题呀,他们不愿意去管这些事情,他们想把这些孩子们、学校赶走了他就省事了,就不用管了。

YZ:这个尤其是管教育的那个口,也就是教育部门不愿意承担责任。

WW:The other point is that the education departments, the locals, the city’s education department, they don’t want to take up the responsibilities like checking for safety issues. It’s not really that all the buildings are unsafe, or the teachers are all having issues, it’s just the authorities don’t want to take that the responsibilities of guaranteeing the kids safety, or in any way supporting them.

(TBC)

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